💰How to make money with a small social media audience (Ryan Magin) [1/2]

This is part one (of two) of a conversation I had with the Instagram & Content Wizard, Ryan Magin. After we finished recording, we were both like "damn. we could have just turned this into a paid product."

But instead, we stuck to the plan to give it to you for free.

We’ve known each other through this weird world of internet marketing for a decade and we’ve got the battle scars to prove it.

We go over content strategy, advertising, controversy and selling your stuff with social media.

Part two will be available soon. But if you want early access, leave a review on the podcast and send me an email (ryan@unusuallyfocused.com) to let me know. I’ll hook it up.

unusuallyfocused.com/podcast/how-to-make-money-with-a-small-social-media-audience/

👉🏼Learn more about Ryan Magin and follow him @ryanmagin.

🔻🔻🔻🔻🔻
Third-Person Show Notes:

3:00 - Ryan Magin tells the story of how he started his business, and some of the struggles that happened along the way.

10:25 - Ryan Orrico discusses the “Red Carpet Ready” campaign he did for Valerie Waters, and why it was a total "failure." (or at least, why he though so at the time).

12:25 - You could probably be more “controversial” in your business. Here’s why.

15:38  - “You don’t need to call out people to be controversial.” There are other ways to create the same effect, without being an asshole.

17:00 - Ryan Magin discusses ideas for getting the engagement he wants.

19:50 - Ryan and Ryan explain their takes on “ghost followers” and whether or not you should get rid of them.

25:00 - These are the types of posts you should run as content ads.

27:45 - Ryan Orrico explains exactly what he would do if he were starting his business from scratch.

33:40 - Why you should never stop posting those blurry photos of you eating dinner with your mom, or hanging out with your friends, even if your social media is used for business.

37:00 - Here’s some basic information you need to know, if you want to run ads on Facebook/Instagram

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I'll create like a one page pdf of like an idea or like some tips and I'll just make a story that says, hey guys, I got a new Pr, a one page pdf, Tony, you guys the five ways to piss people off, but, and then may immediately make them happy. If you want me to send you this pds, shoot me a DM that says"piss me off," I'll get like 100-200 DM's in a day and then I send them a pdf. But it's also, I just opened a direct line of communication with somebody that's interested in some shit. And then I just have conversations with people, not hard sales, just like, oh, so tell me about, you know, do you start, what are your struggles? Like why aren't you doing this to the level at which it's full time? What are you doing here? And I sell content. I teach you how to create content and like make money from smaller audiences. I, you know, I don't know what your budget is, but I saw a program called social content mastery and it's actually a live event I have here in St Petersburg, Florida and it's, you know, it isn't achieved course I, it's a three day workshop, you know, so like, and then a lot of times I'll get a yes- or I'll get a no. Next thing you know, I just made three grand,

Speaker 2: 1:09

said it's a clip from this episode with my Buddy Ryan. Again, this is actually part one of two week recorded a really long conversation that cash the afterwards for your roles. Like damn man, we did it. Just turn this into a paid product. But we didn't do that. I did divided into two parts though because it is kind of long. I met Ryan about 10 years ago at a marketing event in San Diego and since then we've both gone on to do a bunch of crazy weird stuff with both social media and email and all these different things. We sell products and consulting kind of related to our interests as they've morphed and changed over the years. But this conversation is great and we talk about a lot of really cool stuff about how to make money with a small social media audience, how to be more interesting. Ryan's got some cool thoughts on the content and it is content boxes, which are pretty interesting approach to this whole thing. We talked about the power of dms and selling stuff through dms. We talk about how to build status by using Facebook advertising and a very specific way in a whole bunch of other stuff. And then the second part of this conversation, we will continue on many of the same topics, but I think you'll get a lot of value out of this, especially if you're someone who likes my ideas but maybe are turned off by kind of the aesthetics of my page. Ryan keeps a very nice aesthetic beauty. We share a lot of the same ideas about marketing and how to actually influence people. So I think you'd get a lot out of this episode and I hope you enjoyed it. Please let me know what you think. Cool. So I'm here with Ryan. Thanks for coming on the podcast, dude.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Yeah. Thank you man. Thanks for having me. I know we've been trying to do something like this for a while, so I'm glad we're finally making it happen.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Yeah, for sure. I'm, I'm stoked about this thing man. The, it's, it's still pretty new but uh, it's, the audience seems to be growing pretty pretty quickly. I think it's cool for us because we can spend a little more time talking about some, some cool shit. But I think, I think first I'd be, would just be interesting cause we've known each other through this Internet marketing world for a long time and we were just talking before about, we originally met at a Frank Kern event, mass control at the San Diego hard rock when I was working with Valerie. Um, why, why were you there dude? Like how did you end up there? Who'd you know?

Speaker 1: 3:11

Well long story short, I couldn't even afford to be there. That was like one of those events that, you know, like you're like, this would be a good event and I should like spend all my money to get there to network with the people that are possibly like on a help me further my business. And at the time I was just like mad confused that where I was going with my digital business. I had just, um, like little background. I mean, I know you know it, but for your people, um, I created a, um, I was a professional BMX racer. I was never the best professional BMX racer. I was always like, just the guy that, uh, you know, I made the finals, I was good enough to be pro, but like there was probably no Olympic contract and my future, um, you know, it was just like that awkward, I'm too good to be amateur but I'm not good enough to be a top professional kind of position, which like I feel like a lot of athletes face that at some point. Um, but you know, so I was like, man, how can I continue my BMX career? And like this internet thing is Kinda cool. Um, and like this is right when Tim Ferriss released the four hour work week. There was kind of like changing the game in the world when it came to like passive income and all this shit right around the time I had also met Elliot Hulse, um, who has since gone on to, I mean he's probably one of the most polarizing individuals I would say on the Internet, let alone the fitness strength training space where he kind of lives. Um, and these are the reasons why a lot of people you like the genre of Youtube videographers and vloggers and daily daily content. Like he kinda like inspired a lot of what is that industry right now? So I kind of just like, you know, I was lucky and fortunate enough to kind of align myself with him at that time. And I thought I wanted to be a personal trainer because I was training clients while I was racing my bike. And then we read this book and he, we kind of bet each other like, hey, you know, and he had just opened his first strength camp gym, which went on to become the empire that it is today. Like are now their, um, they're licensing is a kind of their MIP possible franchising. He was just making, started making videos to drive people into his gym locally. And he was putting on this website called Youtube that nobody knew, knew about really at the time it was brand new and he, uh, so I just kind of start copying him and then he's like, Yo, um, we both read this book. He's like, we need to make products. So he made one about football and I'd been warned about BMX and mine was actually a DVD because my dad, um, like a lot, but no, like I create content now. It's one of the things I teach. Um, but I come from a videographer background. My Dad's been filming videos for as long as I can remember. Um, and he kind of helped me kind of get started to help me create that first DVD, which did by all means sell. I mean I, but because I was a first person in like basically the BMX industry to like kind of freely giveaway, strange training advice via youtube and Viddler at the time was pretty. And then, uh, you know, with my DVD and I started a daily email lists were for BMX or is in life. I was like, so I would go to races and nobody would fucking care that I was a PR. I was like that I was any good at my bike riding, but I was like training the kids have all these parents freely through the Internet, which obviously we know it wasn't making me a lot of money in the back end cause it was all free and like all that was new at the time. But I had a lot of fan support so it was really cool. But after a while I got really burnt out and kind of what got depressed and we know what to do. Then I found SEO and I think that like I was in the transition from the BMX CBD to the Seo world and it was like I was more of the dark hat SEO guy. Um, I was doing like the Google sniper sites club. Sure. You remember, um, where it should be. Yeah. You rank these a little four page mini sites in Google and you spam links out them and then they rank for all these very hypertargeted terms and then they make affiliate commissions. Well I started making good money with that and it was around that time when I think that was just starting to make me money and I was starting to make a lot of commission and that's when that list control event happened. Like, and I was just starting to get recognized as a decent affiliate for a lot of the health and fitness guys cause I kinda stayed in that genre because it was like my passion at the time other than the BMX, it was working out and straight training. So that's like, that's why I was there to like kind of shake hands and meet people. But funny enough, there was a guy he knew, his name is Vince Delmonte and Pia just like accumulated one of his big launches and I had made during his launch, it was, you know, for me at the time, I think it was like 12 grand and I was like, Holy Shit, it's like my first pay day and I was waiting to get paid from him. When that list control of it, it happens. So like I flew out there and I had a guy had like, you know, I bought a ticket, it was like a couple hundred bucks I think. And then I split a hotel room with a couple of my friends that were going and then uh, and then I got there, I think I have like maybe 1200 bucks to my name, you know, my account, which I mean I had traveled on way less than that would be a Mac. So I was like, fuck it, you know, I'll make this work. But we go to like a, like as a celebration. Vince took everybody to dinner or not took it. Like, he was like, come on having this dinner for all my affiliates. We're going out to this nice steak house, you know? And it was like, cool, we go to the steakhouse and I don't know what happened, but I was under the impression that he said he was taking care of the dentists in me, but everybody was ordered drinks and the, and I ordered a hamburger like, you know, cause I was broke. I owed or like a one bud light and a hamburger. And, and he came time when, you know, to, to pay the bill. And he's like, is everybody cool? Just splitting this? And I was like, I didn't want to have that reputation. And it ended up being like, like$400 a person or some shit. It was so expensive. I was like, oh my God. I was like, Oh shit. And, and Aej Roberts who was a good friend of ours, of ours at the time and uh, Jason capital who's a really good friend of mine as well, they were like dying inside because they see the frustration on my face as I paid this like$400 bill from my hamburger. And then that, I think it was right after that we like, I was like kinda depressed. I was like, man, I was just like spent half my money. Like I don't even have a flight home yet. Like, what am I doing? Like, and it was just funny because like, you know, as things always end up working out, like, I mean I met a lot of people at that event. A couple of days later we got back, Vince like wired me the money, like I got paid, but it was just like, it, it, it taught me a valuable lesson. Number one is like just do shit even if it makes you uncomfortable. But I had a meeting, a lot of cool people at that event, but it was like that funny, I will never forget that story is burned in my brain as like, and it was that event. But then, then we went out that night to the bar. I'm like, cause like everybody kind of knew that like I was, that that had happened, at least my close friends, I told them like, cause I never really hid my, my money. I was like, Oh guys, I can't, I'm going to go get a subway sandwich because I'm broke so I get paid. Um, I'm happy to be here. You guys can go have your fucking porterhouse fucking while he be fucking whatever. I was like, but I'm going to get a$5 foot long and a six pack.

Speaker 2: 10:05

That's funny dude. Yeah. I had a pretty similar experience with like Frank's Frankston man, Frank's the first guy that I found that was talking about all of this marketing stuff and you kind of at the time, he's all like buttoned up and professional now. But at the time he was all surfer dude. So his videos and he was talking shit and swearing and talking. It was, it was during the mass control launch and he was like, oh my God, this is, this is what I want to do. So I ended up working with, Val was working with Valerie at the time and we went to that event and we went, we actually went out to dinner too. I didn't know anyone. I didn't have any money either. I was just working with Valerie, you know, I just had whatever. But I went out to dinner with like a mission, some of Frank's Matt trainer and some of those guys. But thankfully they ended up picking up the bill so I didn't have to fork out 400 bucks. But I will say this though, like when I was first finding frank and all those guys, you know, they were talking about doing these like million dollar product launches where they make$1 million in 24 hours or whatever the hell it was. And when I first started working with Valerie, we did a product launch for her membership site, the red carpet ready club. And we didn't like, we did like$75,000 in sales and like the first, I don't know, maybe two days and I felt like a fucking loser dude. I was like, for some reason I was like, sure I wasn't going to make a million. Like we were going to make$1 million. We didn't even come close. But like now that I look back at it, it's like I totally killed it. I think a lot of those numbers they were, they were kind of like skewed to sit. Like if everyone pays their month, we bill for the next year, we'll make$1 million. But it's not, they didn't bring in a million in cash, but that whole thing Kinda Kinda fucked me up. So yeah. Frank's Frank's and interesting dude man. I actually saw you blessing as I saw you busting his balls the other day on his, on his uh,

Speaker 1: 11:44

you know, it's funny cause like guys like frank and that in that world, the Internet like, oh Geez, their life. You know, the reason we have direct response on the Internet, like we have VSL sales letters, all this shit, you know, trace it back to Dan Kennedy who started it. Then you have like Frank Kern who made it all cool, you know, so it was just like, you know, I have mad respect for frank but like he's on Instagram now and he's just doing all this shit. And I was like, Bro, like he started posting the sideways videos and I was like, I'm like, and I'm like, you know, in his own mind, I know he's probably telling himself this is a pattern are up. People are going to turn their phone. I, you know? Yeah, yeah. I was like, no dude. And also too, I have like a mentor, like not so much a mentor, but a buddy of mine who was like, he was basically telling me to be more controversial. I was like, really? I'm not controversial enough if I was doing a pretty good job at that. He's like, no. He's like, you could definitely take it to the next level. So, like I said in the last like two, three weeks, I've been really fucking up

Speaker 2: 12:40

indeed. Yeah, I think that's one of the best ways. Like you mentioned a pattern interrupt. I think I have a lot of yoga people paying attention to me and even just most normal people like as much as they'll say that they don't want drama or don't like it, that shit cannot, like they can't help but look at it when they see it. So even if even if the message or the whatever the whatever the controversial thing you're saying is isn't super relevant to the person. Just that there's like a something going on, something that's like something bad is happening. People have to look at it. It's, it's a funny thing.

Speaker 1: 13:13

I just think it's, it's part of an overall strategy and that, and also too it's like, I mean nobody wants to have the account where it's like you're only negatively bashing people. Like I don't, I'm not going to do that. Like I have my event last week and some feel like where do you draw the line when it comes to cars? I put that all under what I call, like I have my content boxes, I have authority, social proof, connection and engagement. And engagement is usually like you're making shit to fucking cause a stir and it's to boost the algorithm. I mean it's to make people pay attention to you. It's to make people decide, you know, fuck rhyme again or I love Ryan again. Like I don't want to be Luke warm. I want people to be like, you know, like it's yes or no, and you talked about that a lot. Um, and what you do, it's like I want people to realize like, you know, the hate is a real thing on the internet. And as far as like, you know, I think nine out of 10 people don't have a thick enough skin to hack it in this world of like creating content and putting stuff out there to the point where like you're getting hate. Like everybody wants to talk about that. They have haters, but it's like, no, like I'm making youtube videos for like oh six years now and there are thousands of comments and people saying how messed up my bottom teeth on that? I'm like, I'm like you just kind of give us, get to a level of don't give a fuck that. I don't think most people would let themselves get to that level and that that's what it takes in my opinion least now. Cause like if you're like you're not going to stand out unless you're making some sort of controversy.

Speaker 2: 14:38

Yeah. I think that's one of the coolest things about social media in general is practicing dealing with the pushback and becoming more resilient and shit like that. And talking to the talking videos of changed the game for me in that regard. Just dealing with, you know, people, I mean the shit like most of the shitty comments like people talking about like you know your teeth or the way you look or whatever the hell it is. That stuff doesn't even typically I just kind of laugh at that. Usually I'll repost it or make it like clown the dude in the, in the comments. But um, but just even just like, you know, when you share an idea or something you have in someone doesn't like it or whatever the hell it is there, that stuff is definitely translated over to my conversations in real life as well. You know, and it's, it controversies an interesting thing. So I think there's, um, you know, when someone sees something that makes them stop, which a controversial post does, which by the way, this doesn't always need to be, you know, you don't need to be calling out people to be controversial. Like it can be, you can be calling out ideas or big corporations are like, I mean, like something that's like his abstract is global warming. You could create something around that where most people can't really fault you for that. Like they're not going to think you're an asshole. Whereas if you're calling out an individual, a person, then a lot of people will think you're a dick head or that it's too much. But there's an interesting thing I think people like, you know, even if they don't know who, who are the details about the thing, just getting people to spend more time like looking at a post or looking through the comments, like the more time they spend on your stuff, all of that stuff factors into, you know, the algorithm and how powerful your account is. So I just like someone just like clicking on a post and looking at it and maybe scrolling it. It's not the same as someone clicking on a post and spending more time looking at it and trying to understand it or maybe clicking on, you know, one of the, one of the comment or said something in that person, clicks on the commenter's name. All of that stuff goes into the end of the machine. Right. So[inaudible] and using controversial ideas I think is a good way to create content that people spend more time looking at, which in my experience seems to be, it helps a lot. Um, when it, as opposed to just like someone just looking at something quickly and scrolling away.

Speaker 1: 16:56

Well, I think as far as engaging factor for like Instagram is a lot of things that people want to talk about for engagement. Like especially like as you're a smaller account, like I do a lot of stuff that garners people to UTM me and I think DM is like an undercover. Like if you're getting direct message and you're getting a lot of them and you're having long conversations than the direct messages, I mean that has to say to Instagram, this is a fucking engage the cow tensioned to this guy. So like I'm constantly, I do like things, and this is how I do a lot of selling, is I'll create like a one page pdf of like an idea or like some tips or something that I know, you know, Garner people to say, send me in the dms and I'll just make a story that says, hey guys, I've got a new P, a one page pdf telling you guys the five ways to piss people off, but then immediately make them happy. If you want me to send you this pds, you know, go ahead. Uh, shoot me a DM that says pissed me off mark. And then I'll get like a hundred, 200 dms in a day depending on like what pdf it is and what the, and then I send them a pdf. But it's also, you know, for those people listening to this that like sell things, I just opened a direct line of communication with somebody that's interested in some shit. So now I just started talking to him. Oh tell me a little about how you're gonna use this pdf. And then I just have conversations with people, not hard sales, not like, like this link is going to self destruct and your phone's going to blow up. Or it's just like, oh, so tell me about, you know, do you start, what are your struggles? Like why aren't you doing this to the level at which it's full time? What are you doing here? And I fell content. I teach you how to create content and like make money from smaller audiences, you know, similar to what you do. And it's just like, I'm like, why have a program? I, I, you know, I don't know what your budget is, but I sell a program called social content mastery and it's actually a live event I have here in St Petersburg, Florida. And it's, you know, it isn't achieved course I, it's a three day workshop here at or in my city and it's, you know, so like, and then a lot of times I'll get a yes or I'll get to know or it'll end up fucking next thing. You know, like I just made three

Speaker 2: 18:55

great slick man. Yeah. I tell him, I, that's like one of my more recent things. I've been banging on his like questioning why someone would even try to sell something unless they're starting conversations first. So like if people are not commenting on your stuff for sending you dms, there's a good chance that you're not ready to start trying to sell them stuff yet. So instead of just spamming your fucking news feed or timeline with put post trying to sell your thing or get people to show up or sign up instead, it would be a better thing to focus on would be starting conversations with people. And I mean, I suck with dms. Like I just get so fucking overwhelmed with them that like when I get overwhelmed with something, I tend to just not look at any of them. Um, and I know that I'm leaving so much money on the table. It is ridiculous. But, uh, I think, I do think you're right too though, that when there's a, when there's an account that is exchanging a lot of GMS, that that is 100% of big, probably one of the more influential factors in terms of how they decided what to, what content to show to people even on their timeline stuff, you know?

Speaker 1: 19:51

Yeah. Another, another one too is like, I don't know your take on this, but it's like, I don't hear too many. If you had, you know, everybody says like, go like this term ghost followers like you, like you shouldn't, you should delete all of your ghost followers. And I guess the definition of it goes far as somebody who doesn't like or comment on your stuff. And I'm like, yeah, that's cool. That makes sense. But I don't comment. And like on a lot of people's stuff cause does that make me a ghost follower? But that doesn't mean that I'm not actively looking to spend money and like following people's stuff. So like if somebody had deleted me I'd be like Yo fuck

Speaker 2: 20:24

right. Yeah I think there's like an inch. I don't know this for sure. But to me like that feels like just like a, a newbie way of thinking about social media interaction because if someone is like looking at a bunch of your stuff and they're not liking or commenting on it, that is also an indication of something cause that's actually kind of like an anomaly if someone's spending a lot of time looking at your content, meaning like on screen, cause Instagram and Facebook, they measure every single movement that the screen makes, which which orientation the phone is in, whether they zoomed in on a photo, whether they clicked on the comments that people who are in the comments, all that should matter. So it like them. Even if they don't like her comment, if they're still doing stuff that matters to Instagram and Facebook. So I don't really, I can understand maybe deleting up like fake bullshit, bought a cow. I don't even do that. But, um, that's a, that's an interesting thing.

Speaker 1: 21:17

Yeah. I don't even know how you'd do that, but I know there's like software, but I don't want to take the chance of the leading somebody who likes my stuff. Yeah, for sure. All right, cool. I guess I have ghost followers. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 21:27

Yeah, I think, I think the invisible behavior is like, I, you know, it's hard to really put a wrap around that and talk about it. And I would imagine that like the things you did and the stuff you saw before you clicked the link mean a lot to Facebook and Instagram. That's how they, that's how they figure out what you're doing and what moves people. And then when you, when you take that in aggregate with all of the other data they have about a builds billions of other people, that's how they know so much about us because we are, we're the same in most ways. So when they start to see patterns, so it's, it's not just what, whether or not you liked your comments, something Facebook and Instagram knows how much time you spent and that. And that means something as well because their, their whole thing is they want people to spend as much time as possible on their phone looking at, at the, at the screen. So when they see someone who, even if they're not getting the likes and comments, but people are still going to their page, like manually browsing to it, maybe because they, they're annoyed by them or whatever. All of that shit's a positive for us, you know.

Speaker 1: 22:28

I agree. I agree.

Speaker 2: 22:30

That's interesting shit man. So dude, I think, I think it'd be cool to talk about, cause we both, you know, we have a decent audience, not, it's still not huge. I mean we have like maybe 12,000 followers. I think I have 7,000 or something, which in the grand scheme, like, you know, people have 500,000 a hundred thousand, a million, 2 million. So, you know, we're still kind of operating with a small audience, but I think there's a lot of people who listen to this podcast who also have a small audience. We talked a little bit about what, what we would do if we were like starting from scratch or even just getting like an initial following going. You know, so most people have something like they have 200 followers or whatever they'll, but like even if you didn't, what approach would you take starting today if you just signed up for Instagram and Facebook

Speaker 1: 23:13

as you get question cause it cause it, and this is stuff like full transparency. It's a lot fucking harder now. There's a lot of noise out there, there's a lot of people doing stuff and chances are the niche that you're going into is probably oversaturated if not to the point of like way too saturated. I'm not like, I don't want to preface this with saying like don't do it because of that, but just know that. So it's like when you know that you're like, okay one I have to come up with a plan to really start stirring the pot and making waves. So I would like, I would obviously start an Instagram cause I mean I, Instagram is just hot right now. It's where is and I would foresee we have at least another year, maybe longer before they really hammered down the organic reach and they start making it really pay for everything. So like I would start there. I would definitely, I would, I would probably do twice a day posting for like the first like 60 to 90 days and I wouldn't expect to make, try to make any money from that. I would just kind of, you know, start building my account to the point where there's something of, because a lot with a lot of them don't know it. Like what they don't take into account. It's like when somebody comes to follow you, if they come to your page and there's nothing on your page, isn't like maybe you've only been posting for two weeks. Like chances are that they're not going to follow you because of like, oh, this guy is new. You have like negative social proofs. You know, it's just does it, it's working against you at this point. Even though you have like you have low followers annual have enough content not to impress anybody. So it's like I would, I would over front load the content to the point where there's a lot on my page. So that way when people do land on the page, there's more a chance for them to follow. And then I would also, after I got like at least 30 to 60 days, like you know, whether it helps, I mean as you could probably do that and like a month, I do like 60 days of content and you know, twice a day posting for a month and that's going to give you 60 posts and then I would start running content based ads. Um, I think a lot of people are sleeping on content ads. I mean this is one of the reasons why I love Frank Kern stuff. He's kind of making that like a thing is intent base branding. You know, but I've been doing that for a while now to build a retargeting list and for those not listening, so it's like, so you just to simplify it so you're posting every day, you know, you're getting good content out there, whether I'm a sure and I still believe you need a mixture of pictures and videos because Instagram is predominantly a photo platform. So I don't think they're ever going to get away from like they want you to have photos even though they're weighing videos heavier right now. And with that said, then you run. Um, I would run one of my best performing videos. So if you've been posting enough daily content changes all you're going to see patterns in your content, you're going to see what videos get the most views, which ones get the most engagement. Those are what you spin. Then out into content ads. Um, and you run them through Facebook business manager as an actual ad campaign. Not just promote the posts, but you run it for video engagement. And then what that means is like, basically you're going to start a chunk and people down into groups. I watched 25 50 75 or all the way through your videos. Now I would do that too. At least I built up a retargeting audience pool that has watched at least 50% of my video. I would probably spend five, 10 bucks a day or whatever you can do. You can start with$2 a day. Like it really doesn't matter and build up to where you have like that video get like close to like 50,000 views or so. And then when you do that, a lot of things are happening. Number one, you're buying traffic. So Instagram sees you as a paying advertiser and I'm pretty sure they way people that are paying them heavier than people that aren't. Yup. Um, that is, that's just a total like thought could be wrong, could be right, but it makes sense. I base a lot of my things on uncommon sense and then you're posting every day if not twice a day. So now Instagram's like your painting them, you're running ads and you're posting heavily. Then you take the, anybody that's watched it over 25 to 50% or whichever you think is good, then you make a second ad. That's basically just like a follow me add that kind of goes, you know, hey, you know, in these can, these do really well in the stories. But they also work well on the feed and it's just like basically, hey, I see. You know, this one I'm about is what I do. I see you've watched one of my other videos, you're, you know, you watched no over 50% of it. I know that sounds creepy, but this is the analytics Facebook gives me, if you're interested in more daily content about yoga marketing, this is whatever you're about. You know,

Speaker 2: 27:15

go ahead and see what evolves. Yeah man. So he's basically, you're talking about a building a custom audience from people who have already indicated interest in you by watching your videos past a certain percent. It's like one of the most powerful tools that we have. And it's crazy that a lot of people, a lot of people just aren't intimidated by the advertising thing. And I actually want to talk about advertising in a little bit, but just to, just to touch back on something. So if, if you know, you're, you're starting fresh and as Ryan said, you have, let's say you have no, you have no posts, you just started a new account and you start to post and you're, you know, you do some front loading. I think one thing that you can do is just like being, and whether or not if you're starting now or if you already have been, but just it's not working out is just being really straight up about it and like not trying to pretend that you're something you aren't and even just acknowledging like, look, this page is new. There's no posts on it, but it's going to be the fucking shit. So strap in, you know, so like get you. So if, if you feel uncomfortable about not having a lot of stuff up, just talk about that. You know, if it's the same as anything, man, if you feel uncomfortable about making it, talking video and posting it on your page, talk about that you're uncomfortable posting and talking video on your page. It's, it works way better than just trying to pretend that you're a fucking stud already when you clearly don't have enough proof on your page, you know, to, to show them anything but that. So I think just being very forthcoming about your feelings. So, um, if you're, if you're starting from scratch, you can do that. But even if you're just like, you haven't been posting very much, are you? Whatever has been getting in your way. People, people who are on social media are interested in people's feelings about social media. So just like talking about what the hell you're doing with social media and why you're starting this thing or what you're going to be doing with it I think is just a, it's a good way to start and it's a good way to confront the elephant in the room that you're here trying to tell people that you're an expert, but you don't really have a lot of proof. Just like talk about that, you know, like don't, don't, don't, I think that's an important thing is like Gary v says like document don't create. So, um, you know, rather than try, if you want to be as some sort of coach, a fitness coach or you want an online coaching program or something, instead of trying to pretend that you already have this thing, just document what you're doing as you're building it because it's really interesting to people. Um, so I think that's a,

Speaker 1: 29:32

and that's social proof in itself. I mean like most people, like I think, I think now I think there's going to be a rise of like, like a, like a mixture of like brick and mortar and like the Internet as far as like, a lot of people see like these Internet personalities, like there's yoga coaches that like, like you always have. I like that they're just pretty pictures and poses. They don't actually have clients. I've never actually been really trained clients. They just like yoga and they, they're hot, you know, and they look good in pictures and they can do this fucking weird shit where they're standing on their head and they're pressing on their rib cages and shit like that. Like, you know, I think that there's going to be a rise of like, you know, if you have a, you know, 400 followers but, and your first story starts at four o'clock in the morning or five o'clock in the morning and you're showing your morning class and then you're showing your afternoon class and then you're showing you're fucking night class and then you're coming home and you're showing that you're making content and you're putting it out. Like that's the fucking dude I want to follow. Yeah. I want to see somebody that's doing it, like not the one that's like, you know, only the best of the best. Now it's like also too, one of the things that I appreciate is like naturally you want your content game to get like level up. Like you know my content, a lot of stuff that gets put out on my page, it looks very professional because like I operate at that level. Like I don't know how to make a shitty iPhone video anymore. Like

Speaker 2: 30:52

yeah. And it does. You're right. And I think there's like, you know, for, for someone to not show their stuff when it isn't that good and wait until they somehow get good, which probably won't even happen anyways. You end up actually missing out on an interesting story because people can watch you and stuff get better. Like people say that to me all the time. It's like they see my speaking improve the quality of the images of the videos and everything improves because I showed them when it wasn't that fucking good. You know?

Speaker 1: 31:22

I mean, I used to take outfit pictures in front of a selfie mirror. Like that was my Instagram I like, and now it's like I got three cameras and uh, uh, a girl that follows me all the time. Like, you know, like, like that this is just how like I've leveled up my content and, and it's, you know, it sometimes too, like I have to reel myself back in and I've made so many dope videos for my story is that I'm like, Yo, they get the same amount of engagement is if I post a picture of my daughter on the beach like that I took from my iPhone seven like, Eh, like can I use the Instagram filters? You know, like, so it was like even myself, like I have to reel myself back in the show like, hey, you know, it's okay to be normal and like use your phone like a fucking human being uses their phone. Like, you know, which is hard for me. I'm like, Yo, I got like, you know, I carry around like a$2,000 camera. Like, it's my phone half the time, you know, like, so it's, you know, but that's just that like I'm an, I see the, you know, going back on standing out like the better my stuff looks at the more rapid pace that it comes out that makes me stand out from everybody else. So like I'm doing that on purpose, you know, it, if I was known for having super professional stuff, like then I would be doing iPhone shit to be different than make people think, Whoa, what's he doing? Like this is kind of like a blurry photo. Like, you know, if I was like a, like just for example, I'm, I'm pro most likely May 1st I'm like, I'm in some contracts and stuff, but um, the oxyclean guy's name to an, uh, he's on all the oxyclean commercial than that. Yeah. Like I'm going to be helping and consulting and really helping them make and create all the content for it. Social Media and probably like, you know, going on for maybe even doing oxy clean and like he's in good with like nutrisystem is like, like so these are like, this is like a big deal. And like one of the things I told him, I was like, dude you people are so used to seeing you professional on TV cause he's like a legit like my like your grandma knows who the oxyclean guy is, you know, so and I'm like your Instagram should be more iPhone. He like, it should just be you being normal like selfie videos. Like normally I'd be like no selfie videos. Like hold the camera, they have somebody hold it. But with him he was just like, no like dude do yourself if videos like take pictures with fans. Cause I mean I've gone and ate lunch with him and like he can't not get recognized. Like it's crazy. And I'm like, so people wouldn't expect like they want to see the real you and the real you is like those, those blurry photos and like that, you know, you eating dinner with your, with your mom and like shit like that. You know?

Speaker 2: 33:43

Yeah. And Dude, like there they really, they, you know, they don't even need to be blurry anymore because the phones are, the cameras on the phones are fucking legit. But I think yeah, you know, there's, there is something to be said for a celebrity posting ugly stuff and then having, I'll leave but just, you know, not, not professional stuff and then having an impact. And I think that there's impact in someone who is like a local fitness trainer or yoga teachers sometimes posting really fancy shit. Like they did a photo shoot and I think that's representative of something. But I think an interesting part to that story would be you talking about the photo shoot or showing some behind the scenes stuff. So it's not, it's not just look at, look at who I already am, but instead of look at who I'm becoming, you sorted the story. I think that's being told there because I think a lot of people are just intimidated, especially when they don't have an audience yet by you know, it, the imposter syndrome is a big deal and everyone's afraid of that. So they people try to present something that they're not yet when they could have just presented then becoming whatever they become. You know? Uh,

Speaker 1: 34:51

one of the things that I started, I mean you and you probably noticed it obviously on Mike like I could, it's funny, it's like, you know, we kinda like, you Kinda gravitate like last year I was speaking somewhere every month. So like I was like, holy crap, my, uh, my life has kind of become like this highlight reel. Like, so like every week or every month I'm posting all these pictures and he likes speaking and like live like in planes and I'm like, Holy Shit. Like, so like I hadn't had to like step back from that. And like one of the things I told like Savannah is the girl that works in me, which she takes a lot of my photos was I was like, Yo, we got to bring back the relatability on my page. Like I look like a fucking Douche. I'm like, I'm like, I'm, I'm like too cool right now with all this fucking, you know, pictures of me speaking in front of like 900 people and like, like, you know, a hundred people here and a local thing here. And I'm like, we got a dial this back. So I started doing photo shoots, like one of my goals and my Instagram is to like, it's take professional photos and the most unprofessional weird locations. Like, so like I did, right? We did a thing, like we went to a, I did a photo shoot inside seven 11 gas station. Like where I was like sitting down in the aisle, I'm buying muscle milk, I'm drinking a red bull, I'm in the beer cooler. Like just like weird shit like that. Like, and it's just like, cause I think you know, it, it's, it's funny and it's different and it's relatable. And I think that's what people lack is that relate-ability. Um, so yeah, I mean, so that's like one thing too is like, you know, but like you said, like if you take a blurry photo nowadays, that's just, you suck at holding your phone. You should take a good picture

Speaker 2: 36:30

more clean your fucking lens or something man, because that shit ain't really right. You know? But yeah, minutes. That's good shit. And I think, I think you know, I want to talk a little bit more about advertising in a few, but that's another thing too. So if you're, if you're just starting out, you don't have a big audience or whatever is, is getting okay with, actually we could just talk about advertising now. Fuck it. Because it's an important thing. Even if you're, even if you're new, is spending a little bit of money on Ryan called him content ads, which is taking a post that you've made and turning that into what is essentially an ad where you're telling Facebook and Instagram who you want to show it to. But the, the thing about it, the differences. So there's like some people call them a dark post or does, it could be some normal ad versus a content add. A dark post would be something that doesn't appear on your page. So once you stop spending money, it doesn't, no one can see it anymore, you know? So the comments that are on that post go away. But if you use a content ad and you take one of your videos or one of your helpful ideas or whatever, and you use that as the ad media, all of the con, the comments remain and that post remains on your page. But it's being shown now to a bunch of people who are ideally interested in what you're doing. So I think it's a, you know, just to get the ball rolling. It's like you can just spend a little bit of money to get your stuff seen by people who are probably more likely to be interested than just whoever Instagram is guessing to show it to in the beginning, you know,

Speaker 1: 37:55

but you're also, when you do they content ads, you're, you're leading with value. Um, and I mean there should be no hint of a fucking sales page and needs that. It's like, it should just be like literally you talking like the helping people in the most normal possible way. Like nothing like over the top because you want these, the power in these ads is you wanted to like this like camouflage. You want them to just scroll people, somebody is scrolling through their feed and then they just come across like who is this? This[inaudible] gang guy. Oh it's a sponsored. But it doesn't look like an ad. Like oh this guy looks cool. And then here's where the power of a daily content comes in. Cause then they click on your profile like and then land on your page and like, you know, then they start looking at all your stuff. And if there's nothing there they're not going to follow. But if there's a lot of shit there, they're probably gonna follow, you know, at least 30

Speaker 2: 38:45

and I would say this too, like with these content ads, especially with something that like gets it, cause again, I think, you know, if you're new or you're tend to just trying to get the ball rolling instead of trying to focus on sales as we're talking about, you should be focusing on helping people and starting conversations and getting people commenting and talking. So one of the cool things is that when people do comment and you reply to your comments, which you better be replying to your fucking comments. Anyone who likes says I'm not having success and I look at their shit and they're not replying to their comments. It's like dude fuck you, reply to your comments and email me again. Like when you are replying to the comments on these content ads and now you're using Facebook and Instagram to show those ads to a bunch of more people. Not only is the content important, but the conversations that happened in the comments are important. So I would, you know, take, take advantage of any little opportunity you have to tell more of your story in the conversation that's happening in the comments because you're there. Cause if for me it's like I look at comments before I read someone shit, like just like an Amazon review. I look at the reviews before I read the copy. I tend to look more at the cause to see if people are interacting with it to decide should I even spend any time on this. So it's a great, it's a great place to further develop, develop the story further and just show yourself as more relatable. You can also dial back. So like for one of your like, douchey posts of you on a private jet or whatever, let's say you ran that as a content ad, you could use the comments to like address it and talk about it and make fun of it. You know? So like there's a lot of opportunity there. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:11

And also too, if you're doing it as a video, like the video, like the power is, you're building a retargeting list and like, you know, and some people are like, oh you're building it with Facebook. And it's like, it's like, no, but like to me that's an email list. Like I'm like, Bro, like when I, if I make a new piece of content, I just run an ad for five bucks a day to my audience. And within like a couple of days, the whole audience is seen it. Like, and then when you break it down to like direct response principles, it's like, okay, so if I, if 50,000 people saw this and you know, 10% like engaged with it, like, you know, and then there's like a click through rate. If it was like there was a link to something out, like, you know, it's just like you take the basic marketing principles and you, you're turning like, it's like an asset. It's not, it's not like, you know, it's investing. It's like how long do I, you know, yeah. You're, you're putting your trust in Facebook and you're like, I hope to God, Facebook doesn't like, you know, but no, it's like they're, they're going to let you run ads to your audience that you've built. The people that are fucking like, that you've paid for. Like that's like the basic principles that they want people to pay for their audience, you know?

Speaker 2: 41:22

Yeah. And I think the only, the only difference would be just like in that you, it's the data's anonymized. So you can't like see the list of people who you're showing stuff to and you don't really know what's going on. So there is that element of it. But of course Facebook wants you to get results. Like the more money you make, the more that you'll spend on their advertising. So they're going to do everything they can to help you be successful with the ads and show them to the right people. But, but yeah, custom but custom audiences built on people who watched videos is one of the coolest fucking things ever. I mean, I, I mostly run the, the majority of the money I spend on showing my content to the video watching audience are people who have watched 95% plus of a segment of video. So you can, when you, when you go into the business manager, you can define the audience and pick which videos that you've posted. And then you can tell it, anyone who's watched 10, 10% 50% 75% or 95% of these videos, I want to put those people in an audience and then I want to be able to show my stuff to those people cause you cause those numbers, obviously 50% is probably the minimum that I would use because people who haven't watched that much, they probably aren't even that interested. But beyond 50% those people have done something like they've raised their hand and said, Yo, I'm interested in seeing more. So you know, we talked a little bit earlier about the, you know, news feed becoming more more uh, or the organic reach going down. So having to spend money on the newsfeed. So if you're going to be spending money, why not spend it to show your stuff to people who have already said, Yep, I'm interested. At least, you know.

Speaker 1: 42:53

Yeah. And I mean, I mean I think people are also, don't let this scare you like running ad, but I spent, I think it was like 300 bucks and that built my audience to like a through play is how many people that watched it all the way through. I was paying 3 cents there. So I spent$344 total and it technically got like 97,000 views. That's insane. Oh, here onsite here it is. So, so video watches at 100% is 9,325 so that's 10,000 people that have watched a full like 55 seconds of a video of mine, you know, and then you take it and then it like statistically 75% is 15050% is 21,000 but that's just from one video for 350 bucks. So like, but that's now my audience. So those 10,000 people I can now send cars.

Speaker 2: 43:41

Sure. I think peak. Yeah. People get weird about the spending money thing. I've seen people say shit like, well if you're like, look those some random personal comment on one of my promoted sponsored posts and be like, well, if you're so cool, why are you sponsoring your posts? It's like, what the fuck are you talking about, dude? I think people just have a weird, they don't really understand what the hell it even means. You know? They have this weird world idea about the whole thing. Your goal should be to be able to spend more money on advertising that less like if you're not, if you're, if you're not thinking about how can I spend more, how can I get more money so I can spend more money on ads? You're kind of doing something wrong. It's not about trying to spend less on advertising. You should be trying to spend more, you should be trying to spend more on your employees and your tia and wood and everything. So do, it's like your, your business decisions should not be about cutting costs and the most important areas. It should be about making more money so you can spend it,

Speaker 3: 44:32

are there.

Speaker 2: 44:44

So part two will come out in a few days. We will go a little bit deeper into advertising and how to make money with a small social media audience. In the meantime, then you should follow Ryan at Ryan Begin. If you're anywhere near him or you're going to be in Florida, you should definitely send him a DM and find out about his upcoming live events. They are 100% worth it. The dude's a beast. And if you want to get this episode a little bit early, I'm going to experiment with this. Send me a message and let me know. Maybe I'll publish it before I actually planned to publish it. And if you haven't yet left a review or rated or subscribed or done all those fun podcasts things, that would be awesome if you would do that. It really helps me out a lot and I think that's good. So I will talk to you in a few days. Otherwise, if you want it early, yeah, hit me up, let me know. Maybe I'll, maybe I'll oblige. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 4: 45:35

Uh, uh,

Speaker 2: 45:40

so you do realize that it's a little crazy. You waited all the way until the very end. Right. I do appreciate it though.